tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post4763622357249898578..comments2023-12-16T00:39:47.007-08:00Comments on Lassie, Get Help: This is not herding.Luisahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04042236324318156854noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-61353947692608992432010-09-26T18:45:52.388-07:002010-09-26T18:45:52.388-07:00I know I'm a latecomer to this parade, but I d...I know I'm a latecomer to this parade, but I do have to comment on something else in the article (which is a total trainwreck in and of itself, but let's not go there any more than we need to) :<br /><br />I'm told that <i>"The most common problem is overheating, she said. “You’re going to see the dog’s tongue hanging out, and <b>it will be round at the bottom</b>” if the animal is getting too hot, Ms. Anderson said."</i><br /><br />I can't even think of a snarky sarcastic comment to reply to that little quip.Viateciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08523551407472141202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-6951575709691441162010-05-03T23:56:32.341-07:002010-05-03T23:56:32.341-07:00@Anonymous: I suspect there may be more to breedi...@Anonymous: I suspect there may be more to breeding good stockdogs than eliminating the bite and tinkering a bit with the chasing thing. <br /><br />In fact, the grab/bite/kill part is alive and well in many sheepdogs -- I know of a top West Coast sire of working border collies that was a lamb-killer. There's a reason sheepdogs aren't allowed to run loose when they're not working.<br /><br />I worked cattle with my first border collie. I have seen border collies from "sheep lines" and "cattle lines" [the same lines, in many cases] work cattle. I've also seen ACDs work cattle. Different as chalk and cheese. I've never seen Catahoulas work. Aren't they used to bay up cattle?<br /><br />And what is this "grab bite" of which you speak? How is it different from a grip? <br /><br />For the record, I've seen terriers, poodles, cocker spaniels, pit bulls and mutts chase and nip/mouth their owners when excited. It has nothing to do with "herding." It's just bad manners.Luisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04042236324318156854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-18841813288708906942010-05-03T20:33:24.009-07:002010-05-03T20:33:24.009-07:00Behavior chains, shmehavior chains.
When it's...Behavior chains, shmehavior chains.<br /><br />When it's directed at <i>people</i> it's obnoxious (and potentially dangerous) behavior. Not herding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-68604846148974273722010-05-03T08:47:38.640-07:002010-05-03T08:47:38.640-07:00I'm not sure I agree. Herding comes from the h...I'm not sure I agree. Herding comes from the hunting behaviour chain, so it is "prey" drive as well. The only difference is that in the working sheep dogs, the latter parts of the hunting sequence have been "bred out" and some of the middle links of the chain have been emphasized through selective breeding. IOW, the grab bite and kill bite parts have been reduced in intensity (to nearly 0) and the eye and stalk behaviour has been increased in intensity. Different parts of this behaviour chain (that exists in all dogs) have been selected for in different breeds. Ever watch a pointer freeze in stalk mode on a bird (or sometimes a toad, leaf or laser pointer light)? <br />If you've ever seen a border collie from cattle lines work cattle, it looks little different than a ACD or a Catahoula working cattle. The grab bite is perfectly acceptable, even necessary. That doesn't mean it is acceptable to practice it on people. I know of quite a few BCs (albeit mostly from cattle lines) that chase and bite their owners in agility. It is difficult to extinguish because it IS instinct-based (so self-rewarding), but it can be done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-43323009487060805812010-02-02T05:21:26.184-08:002010-02-02T05:21:26.184-08:00I loved the link to Hagrid - it reminded me of the...I loved the link to Hagrid - it reminded me of the day a dear friend let me put one of my Leonbergers out on her sheep. Zorro had a lot of prey drive but he was a well-behaved, middle-aged gentleman who would take directional cues at a distance.<br /><br />Following my directions the Z-man drove a couple dozen sheep out of a large round pen and through a long chute. When the sheep spread out in the pasture beyond the chute one ewe lagged behind the rest of the herd. Zorro singled the ewe out, caught her - and promptly mounted her. With a HUGE grin on his face.<br /><br />If I had not called him off, we could have created a new hyperallergenic cross breed...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-25994339854044552452010-02-01T19:00:52.900-08:002010-02-01T19:00:52.900-08:00Not that I disagree with your point, but I'd r...Not that I disagree with your point, but I'd rather call the jogger's dog's behavior pushy or bratty or rude. People - the kind of people who would call that herding - are likely to think of "prey drive" as some natural, noble dog instinct to celebrate, rather than recognizing nipping and snout pokes as bad behavior that needs to stop.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-82293397803995251592010-02-01T18:18:37.751-08:002010-02-01T18:18:37.751-08:00We have a winner ;~)We have a winner ;~)Luisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04042236324318156854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-62331331741126906592010-02-01T15:27:44.666-08:002010-02-01T15:27:44.666-08:00Cars are driven by rodents.Cars are driven by rodents.Bill Fosherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14187927183252273258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-16662158883453403432010-02-01T12:16:53.866-08:002010-02-01T12:16:53.866-08:00Just watch those crouchy, stalky pit bulls lest yo...Just watch those crouchy, stalky pit bulls lest you get told they have "predatory aggression" and need to be killed! Oy, yes. *eyeroll*<br /><br />Anyway, excellent post! I quite agree. It makes me nuts when people remark on how Steve wants to herd the other dogs in class. Um, no. He doesn't. Not even the Bedlington who looks like a sheep. He wants to chase them because he's a prey-driven little punk whose self-control is still not up to par yet. But we're getting closer!Katiehttp://underdogged.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-64173638903192644592010-01-31T22:16:06.870-08:002010-01-31T22:16:06.870-08:00"But Labradors, golden retrievers, spaniels t..."But Labradors, golden retrievers, spaniels that did the <i>exact same thing</i> were invisible."<br /><br />A behaviorist once told a member of the Border Collie Boards that the member's dog chased cars because they've "broken away from the herd."<br /><br />What would that behaviorist tell the owner of a terrier that chased cars?Luisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04042236324318156854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-10251564911136538962010-01-31T21:54:28.473-08:002010-01-31T21:54:28.473-08:00You mean that Canadian herding instructor who kept...You mean that Canadian <i>herding instructor</i> who kept encouraging my young ES to bite her mortified wethers while bouncing around a tiny pen* was <i>full of shit</i> when she bragged about the beagle that she passed on its "herding instinct test" and that would have easily won a title if it hadn't up and died?<br /><br />Say it ain't so.<br /><br />I have a sort of inversion of this one. A SAR instructor at a water search seminar who held forth at length on "herding breeds'" alleged predilection for over-reliance on their eyes, including a freeze at the bow of the boat she called "stopping the cow." Which GSDs, Malinois, etc. did because they were herding breeds, natch.<br /><br />But Labradors, golden retrievers, spaniels that did the <i>exact same thing</i> were invisible. They weren't "stopping the cow" because they weren't "herding breeds." So they couldn't be overly reliant on their eyes. Because they didn't "stop the cow."<br /><br />'Course, this was the same instructor who lectured me about what was wrong with my reward system before seeing my dog work. Because it <i>had to be flawed</i>, as my dog's work ethic was poor, because I used such a flawed reward system, therefore my dog's work ethic was poor.<br /><br />*Thanks for that experience. It helped <i>so much</i> with my dairy goats, especially working them in the barn.Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-78734416287321120912010-01-31T21:20:05.797-08:002010-01-31T21:20:05.797-08:00Thanks!
On a related note, I'm glad to see ...Thanks! <br /><br />On a related note, I'm glad to see that the video "Hagrid the Herder" is still up on YouTube: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp4lFKmWU8M" rel="nofollow">check out the lovely pibble</a> ;~)Luisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04042236324318156854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33244618.post-83535938491144762432010-01-31T20:53:15.658-08:002010-01-31T20:53:15.658-08:00[stands and applauds][stands and applauds]Smart Dogshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03961482190922545624noreply@blogger.com